Tattoo Needle

How far should the needle go from the tip of the tube? Please advice, & be nice :D.

sorry thats a techinical question and i dont belive any of us pros will answer that.

or you could keep watching miami ink

You got joke darkesthour... It's all good though... Megadeth!!!

You got joke darkesthour... It's all good though... Megadeth!!!

you should just seek out an apprenticeship. sure people learn on there own and everything, but you give all your friends bad tattoos. and it takes alllot longer. one of my friends did that. he still cant do a decent tattoo. i thought about doing it. but didnt want to be the same as him, so i looked for an apprenticeship. listen to the people on here. look for an apprenticeship, dont buy ebay stuff tattoo all your friends. i took the advice. and so glad i did.

The line is long, have to wait around 6-8 months, but still indefinite. Maybe I can start practicing now & when the time comes, at least I already have the basic knowledge. You think a person can be successful in this art without getting an apprenticeship? In my mind it's always good to have a mentor though.

DON'T START TATTOOING. if you really want to get an apprenticeship do not start tattooing do not even think about buying equipment yet. if you thought getting an apprenticeship was hard. try getting one after the shop your applying to finds out your tattooing out of the house. yes im sure there are quite a few self taught artists who are now successful, but if you ask them 9 times out of 10 i gurantee theyll tell you they wish they started in an apprenticeship. Getting an apprenticeship is a longgggg arduous task and as well it should be. your not learning to ride a bike. the mistakes you can make here are not regrettable theyre permanent. so always think to yourself no matter how hard the going gets. its all worth it. The light at the end of the tunnel is far more important than waiting or temporary setbacks. it'll prolly take me a couple years before im good enough to get my foot in the door. but you know what thats cool, because i know when alls said and done it'll be more than worth it. good luck buddy, and remember as long as you remain motivated, and dedicated there is nothing that can stop you

yeah definetly dont start to do that. i thought of doing it. but then all your going to do is pick up bad habbits. and its going to be harder to break. the best thing is to seek out an apprenticership. and make sure you can put alot of time towards it.

if you want to get a head start on an apprenticeship, DRAW!....draw your brains out..draw til your fingers fall off....use a small forest of paper and pencils...the more practiced at drawing you are the easier tattooing should come to you.

how many of you who answered this kid are actual artists?? telling him not to buy a machine and don't do this and don't do that...bullshit...there are other ways to learn other than practicing on people... they're right , don't buy A machine.... go out and buy three or four of them..do some research and find out what the best inks are....do some research on cross contamination and contact public health and take up some courses...safety first...tattooing second capisce? buy some reference material preferably from eikon.com learn about machine tuning...needle depth, speed, angles..etc. etc. go to your neighborhood butcher and buy a shitload of pigskin...go to the supermarket and buy whole chickens....don't go the whole grapefruit route the skin on those is too tough, not the same thing..pigskin is a little closer to the real thing... start small...some tribal, flowers, butterflies, names, stuff like that.... crawl, walk, then you run.... don't let these conservative, mainstream, political fucks decide what your gonna do for a living...if you wanna tattoo bad enough you can find out how and there's always more than one right way to do anything.... just because you don't have an apprenticeship doesn't mean you shouldn't learn... don't let these know-it-alls make your rules....you make your own... there are thousands of professionals who learned without a squirt of piss of help from anyone.... oh and finally ..you better know how to draw cause if not thats the only way I could see this not going ok for you....if you cant draw or have any knowledge of design, lighting , shading, etc.. you are gonna do very boring tattoos and have absolutely no clientele... remember be clean CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN!!!!!! and tattoo 500 or so chickens, and hundreds of pieces of pigskin..and you will see that like anything else it's a nack...you have to practice in order to master... peace to you man keep pushing that ink.... flame away fuckers...

Good call Legacy, I'm open to all suggestions anyway, so it's all good. I'm not saying that I'm gonna tattoo people right away, never in my mind. I have to learn the art & safety first before I do anything stupid. I'll just buy a fake skin or whatever to practice on, until I feel I'm ready to apply it in my own skin. I'm actually a fine artist when I was in my teens & early 20's & now a graphic artist. I do different kinds of medium from charcoal to oil paint. I just love tattoo, ink on skin is just so appealing, been planning & thinking for this for fuckin' years!!! For all you guys trying to throw suggestions, thanks! If you have any more thoughts, bring it out!... Oh yeah, visit my site at www.win-design.net. My old paintings/illustration are not posted yet.

You want to learn go to http://www.supplytattoo.com/board/index.php read everything there. Read what black raven has to say and then read it again. There are tattoo artists there that will answer your questions with out the bull shit you get here!!

and when you go to where 44magnum told you look for Forgiven also...I watched this dude come up....Graphx is another one that comes to mind...

wow ive been called a fuck a before but never a "conservative mainstream political" fuck. no need to flame you legacy, your post screams more about you than i could ever write. i never said you couldnt learn to tattoo by yourself i just think that doing so is dangerous and selfish and wholly disrespectful to those who had to bust their ass and pay their dues to earn their training. much like the advice your dispensing. sure you can read up all the reference material you want. you can buy as good equipment as you can buy from a supplier that sells to the public. but in the end if you dont have help from people who have been trained the results you'll see wont at all be as good as they can be. Ive read tons of interviews of self taught artists and a very common thread among them is that even though they were self taught in the beginning they were still trained by others later on in their career. Sure with tons of practice on chickens and swine you may indeed gain technical ability by leaps and bounds but i can gurantee you that the first tattoos you do on actual people without any help are going to substandard of what they could be. i want every tattoo i do even the first one to be something that any artist would be glad to call his work.

yeah yeah..heard all that before..I actually was bellieving it for a while until I took a little trip to italy...some of the most awesome, artistic professional work I'd ever seen in my life...no apprenticeships..no elitist snobs who weren't willing to offer technical advice to newcomers... sure there were those that took apprenticeships around but even they were willing to help if they could.. and quite frankly any artist who feels like they are owed something cause they "paid their dues" need to come down off that pedistal before they lose their balance... Just because YOU decided to go the apprenticeship route DOES NOT make you any more of a professional than me or any other self taught artists.. that was your road...and like mama always said there is more than one way to get anywhere... I've seen awesome artists come directly out of an apprenticeship and I've seen horrible artists come directly out of an apprenticeship, the same way I've seen horrible self taught artists and I've seen masters that were self taught... It doesn't matter HOW you learned...it matters WHAT you've learned... and on and on and yada yada

yadda yadda yadda, its all about karma. you learn by trial and error, you fuck up lots of people and have to fix someday. You learn from someone good, you fuck up less people and have less bad karma to pay off... Personally, Id rather get really good at my art than fuck up peoples skins...

gabe are you an artist??? or a collector??

Let me guess where this is heading.....It's deja vu all over again...

I am not a tattoo artist. I work with 45 different studios and 100 artists on this website and own a studio with 4-8 guest artists a month. I have listened to probably hundreds of stories about how artists got into the business. Honestly, I dont care how much people scratch, but the fact is if you dont learn properly you fuck up peoples skins unnecessarily.

I'm not a tattoo artist, but im a tattoo apprentice. and from seeing friends do what your telling this person to do. its not worth it. you dont want to just "wing" something on your friend thats permanent. i was going to do the exact same thing, order stuff teach myself while looking for an apprenticeship. i'm glad i never did. if you want something to learn before getting an apprenticeship. other then drawing alot. go take coarses on sterilization, and cross contamination, everything that you can. but having those and a portfolio will acually show that this is what you want to do. an apprenticship is hard. ive had to quit one cause i coudnt do it while working. your going to get out of it what you put into it. i suggest to not listen to these poeople to self teach yourself. and go the apprenticeship way.

Gabe go back to your corner and lay down, you are just afraid you will piss off some of your paying accounts and loose income!! Some of us are not burnouts and can actually learn without being showed over and over and over. So just go and kill a few more brain cells and it will just not matter any more. Just cause people like you can't figure it out on your own makes it look bad for those of us that can!!

Instead of asking how far the needle should go, ask yourself which layer of skin you have to reach. Once you know that and understand why the ink should be at a certain layer then you can hit the anatomy books and find out the distance between layers. Skin is not paper.

I am not trying to put you down, just simply telling you that there is more than depth to learn. You are tattooing a human body, and the skin is an organ. Aside from your artistic experience get familiar with human body. My overall answer will be "2mm", of course on pig skin :p

44Mag, I dont say anything to appease anyone, if my paying clients dont like what I have to say they are free to hire someone else. I dont care how anyone learns to tattoo, your karma is your own to pay off. If I were an aspiring artist I would listen to the folks at the top of their game and take their advice to heart.

You guys are fuckin awesome. I see passion in everyone... Anyway, I'll practice on a pigskin & fakeskin. It's better than doing nothing & Looking for an apprenticeship. At least I can get a hang of using a machine. I spoke to the artist that's been working on my half sleeve, & told me to wait until spring & he might have a spot for me, and said it's ok to practice until the time comes.

You guys are fuckin awesome. I see passion in everyone... Anyway, I'll practice on a pigskin & fakeskin. It's better than doing nothing & Looking for an apprenticeship. At least I can get a hang of using a machine. I spoke to the artist that's been working on my half sleeve, & told me to wait until spring & he might have a spot for me, and said it's ok to practice until the time comes.

there you go..thats basically what I was saying...don't NOT tattoo because you can't find an apprenticeship..buy the machines and get a shitload of practice material..like you said it's better than tattooing nothing.. This way there if you DO decide to go the apprentice route, you'll already have a huge headstart, and you'll only need them to show you what you haven't already picked up on your own... I encourage you to get involved with not only the act of tattoooing, but also the entire culture and it's history... More power to you..

Legacy with all due respect I think you're a fucking idiot. You wanna help walk a guy through "how to learn to tattoo on your own 101". First and foremost if you'd have shown any inkling of support for the public view of this industry/art form you've have told the dude START WITH STERILE. Most ( not all) horribly done tattoos can be covered or fixed , they dont' have a cure for Hep dude , or HIV last I checked. Spend ten years learning how not too infect a dead piece of porkskin , and I know a few really dumb people that would let you tattoo them. Spend 2-5 years in an apprenticeship under a reputable Tattoo artist and I know a world of people that would love to look at your art and see if they'd CONSIDER you for their next piece. Granted some very innovative and talented individuals have "taught" themselves to tattoo and been good at it. Man if you want to tattoo there isn't per se a RIGHT way to learn but there is a CORRECT way. You may be able to teach yourself how to spin out some right proper work , but without the proper background training you're wasting your time. Really you could spend a year in a basic arts and drawing class, 3-6 months in a basic blood born pathogens and cross contamination class. and 2-5 years under a licensed trainer to learn exactly what you yourself could have taught yourself during say what? 10 years on your own. And really I can't say about every state but where I live if you are a carrier of any of these horrid diseases( because you fucked up trying to teach yourself and dropped a needle on your foot trying to make 20 bucks) no one has to give you a license to do shit. PERIOD. All the peopel that tihnk you can do it on your own will be glad to help you do it on your own I"m sure. But all the peopel that truly love this art are gonna help you get to where you want to go the CORRECT way. Best of luck

uh princess with all due respect...scroll up dumbass and you'll see the first thing I told him was before he even thinks of tattooing to take up courses and learn about all the health shit first... And I could give a shit less about how you learned or how you're learning.. that is completely off topic...nobody asked how YOU learned!!!! And you say the CORRECT way as if there isn't more than one correct way... did I tell him to start tattooing people...NO..I told him to get practice material and tattoo that 1000 times... maybe you need someone to guide you but not everyone is that dependent... some of us are capable of learning on their own the same way people learned on their own before apprenticeships were even around... but you do what you do and I'll do what I do...... how's that sound.....

Maybe I misread your initial post. I thought you had said to go out and purchase 3-4 machines and start researching inks , and then learn about the sterile side of the life. My bad.

The more you practice on your own the more shit you put on people and the more you learn from someone who knows what their doing the less crap you put on people. The more shit you put on poeple the more karma you have to make up for. You know legacys thoughts on learning yourself, now go and listen to what the best tattoo artists have to say about learning. Make up your own mind. My experience has made me realize that working around talented people better than yourself is by far the best way to learn any skill. Im a self taught programmer, started when I was 7-8 years old, but the way I got good was from working with people better than myself. Fiddled for a decade, did it myself, but when I got around great people I *really* learned. Once I refined my skills by being taught how to do it by a professional I was able to do it right and in a year was able to freelance to my hearts content and pave my own way. I have heard this same story a hundered times told from the tattoo artists perspective, only my shitty programs weren't on someone's body forever, and my buddies tattoos were. Some of those shitty tattoos are on me, and now those tattoos are getting lasered and covered. So, whatever, do what you will, but hands down almost all tattoo artists at the top will tell you to spend your time learning how to draw better instead of tattooing chicken skins yourself. The secret isnt just getting someone to teach you, its getting someone GOOD to teach you, and that happens with artwork that kicks ass, not experience on fake skin.

dont slam so hard guys. legacy makes a decent point. what is honestly wrong with practicing? especially when this kid already has an apprenticeship lined up. if more people would lend a helping hand instead of slapping them down, there could be so much competition in the art. and thats what i see more and more of every day. tattoo artists that are afraid of competition. i have seen people that have taken a fucking ball point pen tube and an e guitar string and fucking create magic. no joke. yes safety and knowlege about a sterile environment is important, but in the same sense who in the hell is the kid hurting by tattooing up some pigskin. hes not hurting anyone. HES HELPING HIMSELF! three things dude. LISTEN, LEARN, PRACTICE. get as much technical advice you can from everyone. take it in. apply it, learn it. then when you start your apprenticeship, the things you are weak or wrong on your mentor should fix. thats all.

I dont know it just seems that because its the internet its especially important to be careful because god knows who's reading it. sure legacy makes some good points in regards to the one hes person hes talking to has an apprenticeship lined up. but what about the 50 teenagers who read yea go out and buy three tattoo machines dont worry about apprenticeships there are different ways of learning. i just think its bad advice to be handing out over a public forum.

I dunno, if I had an apprenticeship lined up then why bother futzing with pigskins and machines by yerself, seems like yer time is better spent drawing better on paper and learn to use the machines properly during the apprenticeship. I dont really care either way, but it seems like a waste of time and will only develop bad habits that need unlearning (compared ot bettering your drawing which you have to do every day anyways). I guess that leads us to the question, can we check out your drawings?

try 2 mm. That's the depth of the layer of epidermis that will hold the ink, without injuring muscle tissue. The end

Gabe, I think you saw my drawings in BTC forum, anyway here it is: www.win-design.net, I still have tons of drawings not posted in my website.. Be nice people... I started my "career" as a fine artist, graphic artist & now want to convert to tattooist. It's been my dream to be a tattooist since the mid 90's.

what is the percentage of current great artist that had an apprenticeship vs the ones that haven't gotten one? As far as I have learned and seen throughout these years, is that great artist are the ones that had outstanding artistic skills to begin with and swap paper canvas for skin and brushes for machine and needle sets. My mentor/ friend at least is one of those. That would help.

Flip tat, I checked your work, you def can become a great tattooist if you learn the right way

If anyone knows somebody in need of an apprentice/student, pleeeeeeease let me know!!! would be greatly appreciated.

... Anywhere in Massachuasetts.

Bud I would go to yellopages.com and start there searching for studios in your area. Don't expect others do your homework. Phone call may not be the best route, but instead prepare a nice folio with your best work and walk in one by one.

and get tattooed by the best artists you can. There are some mighty fine tattoo artists in New England, and they tend to give good advice to folks who deserve it.

Also, your portfolio is pretty strong, if you get tattooed by great artists and network, then oppertunities should present themselves. Its gonna be a lot of work, but I think with patientce and hard work you should be able to end up learning to tattoo.

Craveink, already did my homework months ago! Allso walked-in some shops, same answer. Either waiting list or the shop is slow.... Peace.

Good & Bad News... Good news is I found an apprenticeship, the bad news is, it's expensive! it'll cost me 2500!... Please advice on how long should the apprenticeship be & how times a week? Will 2 months be too short? That's what the artist said (he's the owner & have a kickass portfolio)... I work full-time job so I have to squeeze my time for apprenticeship. I also have to buy my own kit, machine, ink, etc... what you think fellas? Just don't want to get ripped off & want my money & time worth.

Flip, ask to speak to others he has apprenticed, 2 months is a very short time to learn what you must learn and to develop the skills and knowledge essential to being a good and SAFE tattoo artist.The mentor in the shop I work in spends 4 months just on machine building and maintenance! BE CAREFUL! And btw $2500 is NOT that expensive for an apprenticeship if the mentor knows his beans but for just two months? NOPE! And you need to make a full time committment to the art, a few hours a wekk just won't hack it!

Lets see his portfolio. $2,500 is a fair price, but 2 months sounds very very short. the last thing that should be rushed is learning how to tattoo. Are you very tattooed now? Your portfolio is strong, but I would think many artists might have you refining your style for 2 months... So, well, first up lets see the work of the guy doing the teaching, and unless he is really bad ass my opinion is $2,500 for 2 months might get you a bit ahead, but you may be able to get a better opportunity if your patient. Will you be working for the artist who apprentices you?

Gabe, here's their site: http://www.stainofcain.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Al-s-Gallery His portoflio is loaded with diverse styles. 2 months apprenticeship is not definite yet, I just might have misunderstood him, we'll meet this week & discuss about the details. As of now, I have my left halfsleeve full & right calf leg halfway done. I'll be working closely with the artist/owner that will apprentice me... What you think? Like what I've said I don't want to get ripped off, although I show much respect for the true artist that paid their dues, shows love & passion to his craft.

The tattoos on that site seem like they're well done. Clean lines and a decent aptitude for a few different styles. Two months does seem a bit unorthodox. The money he's asking really ain't shit compared to some of the places I've inquired. I say if you can get in and learn some good sterile habits as well as a few diverse techniques , and get your license as well out of the deal , go for it , But if I were you I'd push for a longer apprenticeship. I just don't think there's that many fast learners out there. I know a guy who did 3 years before he even touched someone else's skin. and it took him two years to pick up the machine. Granted that is a long time , but two months just doesn't seem long enough. Best of luck at any rate.

You have to pay for an apprenticeship in the tattoo world? I would have thorught it's the same with any apprenticeship, you start at the bottom and work your way up?

I almost got into a blacksmith apprenticeship with a well known local guy and he was asking 3 grand for for two years training. doesnt seem all that different than tattoo apprenticeships

hi guys im a huge fan of the art i been trying really hard to get an apprenticeship but its not that easy!! most of the people ive been to are wankers!! and i know tattooing isnt the same as drawing but i have alot of talent to offer well i thought i would add that!!! so hows the art ment to grow? or do you guys want it to???????

pabs, lets see your art! Have any links?

Wow, It's been 6 months since I post this subject, but anyway, I got my apprenticeship (part time) last Nov. It's been great, learning a lot eventhough it's only on the weekends. Here's my link to my work http://www.inkednation.com/winwin1075

I would not pay anyone of those fools, instead take that $2500 get several pieces and just watch and learn, ask a few question and there you go, fuck those assholes, greedy blood suckers

the answer is 2mil.....set needle to the size of a dime gap..the thickness of skin that hols ink is 2 mil...hope this helps you out and dont let wanna bees get you down...people who trash talk newbies are juse net tattoo artists

what's the point of making a fuckin forum if you fuckin professional bitches wont share any knowledge, get the hell out if you don't wanna help

sry for the harsh comment

[email removed], the point of this forum is to talk about tattoo and art and not technical issues. The professional bitches wont share with you cause your artwork probably sucks ass and/or you have a poor attitude. Professional bitches share with people who they want to see do tattoos. Dont hate them cause you suck. sorry to be crass. Lets be professional about this. Lets see your artwork.

that kind of pretensious attitude kept me out of working in shops and i've been a private skin artist for 15 years. "any of us pros". listen, we all "began" somewhere... yet, never fails.. it's the same shitty attitude with you pros. the guy is asking for advice. not for your job. i used to enjoy giving tattoos.. nothing i was passionate about because it's rarely ever "my" work.. just print outs of something from somewhere but, i liked it cos i love to draw & occaisionally i would do a piece i actually liked. those pieces, few and far between were what kept me doing the work. the tattoo world itself.. i find incredibly small and boring. filled with snobby "pros" like yourself un-related to "real art" by MY definition. sporting flames and koy. get over yourself. there's nothing more hardcore than being loving.

hey just wondering, is there an age that you have to be? im going to be starting to look around for an apprenticeship soon, and graduating high school this semester. I know this is what i want to do, but do i have to take something previous to the apprenticeship or...? any thoughts would be helpful

far to long have i watched people looking for good advice and get blowen away, i started tattooing when i was 16, did it till i was 21, then broke and have just started up again at 40,things have changed over the years, styles,colours,old tattooing depth, ,3.5mm, but as we all start learning, things get better,depth for tattoing, depends on the area in which your tattooing,but as a rule 1.6mm,for outline 1.8mm for shading and colouring,or 2.1mm, or 2.5, it depends,my advice to you is to try little pieaces on your self, see what works, speed ,now thats a good on, ive just had to change my power pack for a digital one, lol,as a rule amps can be left on full, no danger off it burning your wires,it the voltage you want to try getting right,its a personal thing ,every bodys set up is different,but you do slow down for colouring, and speed up for outlining,as a rule when starting a tattoo outline, go in at 90degree ,and for shading and colouring 75 to 45 ,all depends on area again,hope i helped a little,but you never no i might be wrong, i dought that.

im a tattooist and i started in the house. i bought the equipment off ebay & practiced on my dad its going really well so you dont need an apprenticeship :) also, the needles should just come out of the tube a small bit but dont put pressure on the gun, its only the very tips that should enter the skin

you lot suck.... how the hell did you get started ???? didnt somebody teach you? you really piss me off with your secret code of stupidity, what about the new artists up and coming ?, you know nothing, all your trying to do is protect your own work, move over for christ sake, maybe YOU will learn something.

QUOTE: "didnt somebody teach you?" An artists who serves an apprenticeship pays their mentor with money, work or both. They're paying for their education. Why do people think that tattooists should sit here and teach people for free what they had to work really hard for? Further, if you had an apprenticeship, you would be able to ask your mentor. So it's a safe assumption that people who ask these questions are self taught. The industry is trying to push the art further, not help someone tattoo in their kitchen by trial and error and in dirty conditions. Shit, I'm self taught too but I never got a chip on my shoulder because an artist wouldn't give me free advice. Excuse me now, I need to ask the vet how to remove my cat's appendix..

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!, the dude asked a simple question, maybe he IS lookin for an apprenticeship, maybe while he is waiting he just wants to learn as much as he can so he can practice on pigskin and synthetic skin,you guys all know its all about practice. just because someone asks a technical question to "you pros" it dont mean they are a scratcher or even that they are tattooing out of their houses,maybe they just wana practice on synthetic skin untill they find someone decent enough to help them. you ppl started out knowing fk all too you know. Im searching for an apprenticeship too,i have worked in a shop for a year before but my teacher moved back to chile so untill i find a new apprenticeship i practice my ass off on pigskin,but i dare not touch a person cuz i got respect and i wana do it the right way, but when i go to purchse top equipment instead of those shit tattoo kits to practice with im told piss off cuz im not a registered artist. i get your views to an extent but yer always moanin at beginners to get an apprenticeship yet if some talented artist came to you looking for help to do things the right way youd most likely turn around and say "er,not lookin for someone right now" cuz yer so far up yer own asses that you cant see you werent born with a machine in yer fkn hand. its time you guys started given positive advice instead of shunting beginners out the first chance u get,you all gang up on them in these forums.you dont hafta go telling them in deep about your work but at least be nice. TO ALL WHO NEEDS ADVICE: [email removed] is my email address for any beginner who needs positive proper advice. Please bare in mind though,my advise is strictly for those who intend to do things right. The information i give will not be very technical as bare in mind im only starting out myself,but i will pass on what i have learned and will only tell you what i know is 100% correct. I will pass on everything i know from hundreds of hours of searching the web,reading books,watching PROPER dvds etc. and of course the year i spent working in a studio. Including all i know from my bloodborne pathogens course. So guys please email me if you need help. and to anyone else who wants to bitch just piss off and mind your own business. L8r :-D

Reading through the messages on this page whilst thinking... What crap?! And then i came across the reply from Legacy and other than those who agree with him/her, he was the only one who speaks any sense. Learn through doing! No experience is bad experience, at the end of the day even if you're doing it wrong at least you've learnt one more way how not to do it... I think it was Thomas Edison when he was trying to produce/invent the carbon cotton filliment for the incondesant lightbulb that said; "I have not failed 10,000 times. I've just found 10,000 ways how not to do it. You need to get a small selection of machines and kit etc, and before you start trying to jump into the deepend, practice, practice and practice but ONLY on either prosthetic (Practice skin) or pig skin from the butchers or at the very least as disgusting as it sounds, fresh roadkill or dead animals. But aswell as that, DO practice drawing as the others had said because its all vital experience if you want to become a good tattoo artist. Anyway whatever you do as long as you take all advice from anyone in its stride and perspire and keep at it and don't let others discourage you then i'm sure your get there one day. Just DON'T go out there tattooing any real humans until you get some proper sound direction and advice from a professional and that doesn't mean some of the crap you get on Youtube, by all means if your confident enough then tattoo yourself but thats only if you dont mind fucking up your own body. To be quite honest i actually started out practicing on my upper thigh but its not advisable. Keep it up.

Oh yeah, and i forgot to mention, get to know your kit aswell. Practice taking your machines apart and putting them back together and tuning your machines and getting to know the names of the parts as all that is vital knowledge. Also the human body, read biology books and gain knowledge on the skin as an organ.

I've read this whole thread and I see the ups and downs to both sides. I started out when I was about 16 with making my own guns and using guitar string for needles, and yah, I slung some weak lines that I had to redo to fill gaps and such. It's not the way to start out if you're looking to become a nationally known pro, but most people just want to be artists for the arts sake, for the joy of having their work on someone, wether it's from flash or something original. This apprenticeship stuff is all great in theory, but I've found it REDICULOUS how tight lipped the artists in the shops are when you start talking about slinging ink and wanting to learn from someone who is already in the game and they react like you're going to cut in to their customer base or something. It's a business like any other when it comes down to that end of things, and that sucks. I came on this site to look for artists who are willing and eager to move the tattoo world foreward by sharing info, to get people away from drilling ignorantly on people with single needle home made guns by way of giving up some of the tips and tricks to using real equipment. People are always gonna be out there inking each other up with the home made stuff, and with the newbe kits, so how about sharing some info on the technical side that will help prevent or at least reduce the mistakes that are going to be made one way or the other? People are not going to just put down their tat guns because someone on a forum says to spend the next year looking for someone to give $2500 to and the following couple years watching others do tat work before trying to put some ink on someone. Yes, get the safety and sterility info out there in DETAIL first, don't just tout "be clean" vaguely and use that as an excuse not to talk about anything else that might help someone lay down some better ink than they would otherwise be doing. If you "pros" are so determined to see new artists go through apprenticeships, how about some of you show that it's not just a gambit to kill up and coming competition and put together a website that will match up new artists with old pros willing to teach or something like that?

just so the needle just barely pokes out from the tip when the armature bar is pressed down.

What about people like me who get an apprenticeship, pay the money, and one day they go in (after spending a week in another state for a family thing ) and the shop is gone? I called the guy I was getting the apprenticeship from but the phone number I had for him had been turned off... He had taught me quite a bit of stuff and he had me tattoo myself. I know I need to find a new person to apprentice under, but the only other guy who would deal with my times (because I go full time to college and have a tiny part time job... Like 1 day a week for gas money, lol. ) around said he "doesn't apprentice chicks" and I honestly can't fathom why not. I even asked him why and he responded with some bullshit excuse like "It's just not a good thing to do." and that was that. My first tattoo was alright. There's some stuff I wanna fix, obviously. It's on myself so I'm not really concerned about it, honestly. I actually like it, lol. But I know the depth of the needle/ how to take apart my machines and put them back together/ all the shit about OSHA and cross contamination/ I own all my own supplies ( he made me buy all my own shit. I've read sooo many books and I'm quite familiar with the epidermis/dermis and the depth my needle needs to be. Really, the only thing he didn't properly teach me was technical things about the damned machine because I honestly don't think he even knew them. So, it's like I trained under this "professional" who fucked me outta 1500 dollars and dissapeared one day. I was there for about 5 months or so. I dunno, should I just practice on myself more? I don't particularly care if the tattoos on myself look a little shitty. ( I keep all my old artwork. The shittier the better because it shows my progression. ) I actually have an associates in fine arts and I'm working for my BA in art. I've done art all my life. I have a full art portfolio which I've taken into shops and they've "ooh'd and ahh'd" over it but still turned me down. So I'm stuck. I know someone's gonna be like " Get an apprenticeship or you fail at life and will never make it as a tattoo artist." Well I try every day. I keep trying and I won't stop trying to get one, lol. I don't wanna be some lame scratcher. But I already know how to tattoo, how to sterilize, how to do everything. I just want some techniques and a little advice. I have the art part down. I know shading/color and design/ negative space/ blahblahblahblah. I know how to do portraits ( in charcoals/pencils/ink/paints/fucking crayons ) It's like I'm fucking stuck between a rock and a hard place. This douche ripped me off and I can't afford a new apprenticeship for a while. Basically what I'm asking is where can I look for techniques? Where can I look to see different ways to blend colors/shade/different stroke techniques? Maybe even a little more information on the technical aspects of the machines. I know 2mm/I know how to set for liner/shader/ I know needle/tube sizes and variations. I know I'm gonna get flamed, so flame away if you have to. Right now I'm just soaking up information and tips/techniques. That's all I want. Also wanna fix the tattoo I did on myself a bit... since dipshit lost his shop, I don't have anyone to ask about how the fuck I can fix it. I don't particularly care if it looks like hell, but it'd be nice to touch it up a bit, you know? Anyways, I'm done. Any information would be greatly appreciated. /end rant

1/16 to 1/32 of an inch on a liner and on a shader with 10wrap coils 3/32" and on 8 wrap coils about 1/16"

if you cant work in a legit shop then you are a fucking hack. if your try it out on your friends then your a douche. if your askn to learn ,fuck off. theres plenty of us and you dont always get to do what ya want. go flip a burger , watch la stink, get drunk and bang ur nasty ole lady out.

if you cant work in a legit shop then you are a fucking hack. if your try it out on your friends then your a douche. if your askn to learn ,fuck off. theres plenty of us and you dont always get to do what ya want. go flip a burger , watch la stink, get drunk and bang ur nasty ole lady out.